Really interesting discussion. Switching between tenses and perspectives can certainly have a profound effect. However, thinking about it in the context of the first lines of a narrative is probably doubly difficult, because crafting an opening must surely be one of the hardest tasks by itself.
I definitely prefer the past tense, either first or third person. It is perhaps too logical an approach to take, but surely, if one is reading something, it has happened, it has been written down—passed into the past! That feels most comfortable to me.
I do find first person present to be somewhat acceptable, but the present feels too immediate for third person. In first person present, I can imagine being inside the head of the character, thinking at the same speed and experiencing the world at the same time. The distance of third person combined with this immediacy is jarring, perhaps deliberately so, but jarring nonetheless, so I find it difficult to engage with. From this perspective, the author seems to be commentating live while observing the events of the novel, as if the story were some sort of sporting contest.
However, the third-person-present book that comes to mind is “Wolf Hall” by Hilary Mantel; my heart sank when I first realised that it had been written like this, but I persevered, read the sequel, waited impatiently for a few years and finally bought the third novel in hardback as soon as it was published, so it cannot have been that much of a problem!
Worst of all, though, from either perspective, would be the present continuous tense. I am writing in the present continuous tense and I am already losing the will to live. Nathan is reading this sentence and he is surely agreeing with me.
I would highly recommend it. Historical fiction at its finest; the world building is akin to that of the finest science fiction or fantasy, but grounded in fact, as well as imagination. The amount of research required must have been monumental. (The television series of the first two books is also excellent.)
Openings, openings, openings! I swear I did not see this one but of course, it's on all of our minds. Pesky opening lines. Thanks for linking me this. I do not like first-person too much. Although I cannot imagine Robinson Crusoe in third-person, it would be a completely different book. So without knowing more about the whole project, I can't tell if it would work overall. I do find it more difficult to write in first person (too many Is), though, than in third, but I get your concern about immediacy. Present tense. Hm. It's what I use for the screenplay I am writing, it needs to be in present tense and it's fine there since the scene descriptions are short. First and foremost, trust your instinct. You notice some "tells," you take care of them. Leave the opening if you're stuck and come back to it once you are done with the ending.
Thanks for taking the time to read. Appreciate the input, too. Trusting seems appropriate. I should aim to finish before overly worrying about the opening right now.
Interesting that you're not into first-person as much. It seems to be my default preference for books that I most enjoy, so that's likely influenced me. What's that term ... intertextuality? ;) (Or am I using it wrong?)
It's great to see the process of fellow writers and I appreciate you sharing this. It's how we learn. And thank you for the link back, have a Nikka on me.
Re: Intertextuality, absolutely! You have formed a specific "pretext" that influences your reading and writing preferences, even if you don't consciously put references in your work, there will be overlaps with what you have experienced, naturally.
We could also go further and say, it's in your DNA, like prototype semantics. Very interesting theory. I have a small experiment I sometimes do with people around that, i.e. I give them a specific word and ask them to write down five things that spring to mind in the first 30 seconds, instinctively. No matter where they are from, what they have read or the degree they have, there is overlap. Always. In my Openings, I said I put 10. In fact, there are 12. My own and an intertextually referenced opening from a well-known play written by a famous playwright. Sneaky, eh?
Really interesting discussion. Switching between tenses and perspectives can certainly have a profound effect. However, thinking about it in the context of the first lines of a narrative is probably doubly difficult, because crafting an opening must surely be one of the hardest tasks by itself.
I definitely prefer the past tense, either first or third person. It is perhaps too logical an approach to take, but surely, if one is reading something, it has happened, it has been written down—passed into the past! That feels most comfortable to me.
I do find first person present to be somewhat acceptable, but the present feels too immediate for third person. In first person present, I can imagine being inside the head of the character, thinking at the same speed and experiencing the world at the same time. The distance of third person combined with this immediacy is jarring, perhaps deliberately so, but jarring nonetheless, so I find it difficult to engage with. From this perspective, the author seems to be commentating live while observing the events of the novel, as if the story were some sort of sporting contest.
However, the third-person-present book that comes to mind is “Wolf Hall” by Hilary Mantel; my heart sank when I first realised that it had been written like this, but I persevered, read the sequel, waited impatiently for a few years and finally bought the third novel in hardback as soon as it was published, so it cannot have been that much of a problem!
Worst of all, though, from either perspective, would be the present continuous tense. I am writing in the present continuous tense and I am already losing the will to live. Nathan is reading this sentence and he is surely agreeing with me.
Wonderful insights, thank you Ser Jamie. (Ser Jaime.)
I have always found it easier to engage with first person because it feels as though you, the reader, are directly within the mind of the character.
I have never read Wolf Hall. Have always wanted to, but never made it to it. Now I would like to make it to it a little sooner.
I would highly recommend it. Historical fiction at its finest; the world building is akin to that of the finest science fiction or fantasy, but grounded in fact, as well as imagination. The amount of research required must have been monumental. (The television series of the first two books is also excellent.)
I keep receiving book recommendations left, right and centre. Oh how to prioritise!
Openings, openings, openings! I swear I did not see this one but of course, it's on all of our minds. Pesky opening lines. Thanks for linking me this. I do not like first-person too much. Although I cannot imagine Robinson Crusoe in third-person, it would be a completely different book. So without knowing more about the whole project, I can't tell if it would work overall. I do find it more difficult to write in first person (too many Is), though, than in third, but I get your concern about immediacy. Present tense. Hm. It's what I use for the screenplay I am writing, it needs to be in present tense and it's fine there since the scene descriptions are short. First and foremost, trust your instinct. You notice some "tells," you take care of them. Leave the opening if you're stuck and come back to it once you are done with the ending.
Thanks for taking the time to read. Appreciate the input, too. Trusting seems appropriate. I should aim to finish before overly worrying about the opening right now.
Interesting that you're not into first-person as much. It seems to be my default preference for books that I most enjoy, so that's likely influenced me. What's that term ... intertextuality? ;) (Or am I using it wrong?)
(For anyone else who may see this, definitely go read Alexander's far less rambling and far more insightful post on openings: https://alexanderipfelkofer.substack.com/p/on-openings)
It's great to see the process of fellow writers and I appreciate you sharing this. It's how we learn. And thank you for the link back, have a Nikka on me.
Re: Intertextuality, absolutely! You have formed a specific "pretext" that influences your reading and writing preferences, even if you don't consciously put references in your work, there will be overlaps with what you have experienced, naturally.
We could also go further and say, it's in your DNA, like prototype semantics. Very interesting theory. I have a small experiment I sometimes do with people around that, i.e. I give them a specific word and ask them to write down five things that spring to mind in the first 30 seconds, instinctively. No matter where they are from, what they have read or the degree they have, there is overlap. Always. In my Openings, I said I put 10. In fact, there are 12. My own and an intertextually referenced opening from a well-known play written by a famous playwright. Sneaky, eh?
Oh so sneaky.
Deliberate post today given the (supposed) date of birth of Shakespeare? Or was that yesterday? Close enough, regardless.
And cool experiment. Feels like it could form the start of some mentalism routine...
I wrote it yesterday and he sorta asked me to add it, because, you know, it's his birthday, after all. What a bone chilling coincidence! 👻😂
Great to come along on that thought process with you a little!