I love your passion for the word. I have that especially when it comes to language-bending poetry. That's something I always seek out in writing but in gaming, too. Your writing is always so sublimely poetic. Keep experimenting with words, see how far they bend. Rules were meant to be bent.
Yep yep yep to all of the above (and of course don't mind you jumping in). Disco E is the, err, pillar of that set. The writing, the internal dialogue, the madness and craziness of that story. I loved every minute of it. I started a second playthrough with a completely different build, so I really should get back to that.
CS has superb writing and vibe. Both PoE games are great, too, especially #1.
I started playing Disco Elysium with the 'sensitive' build but it was so emotional, it made it really hard for me to keep going... Maybe I should just restart with the analytical build!
Ok, I realised what I actually wanted to recommend is Torment - Tides of Numenera. Rich world (originally developed for tabletop RPG), genius writing. I've actually taken notes & saved some quotes from it.
Yes, I went full analytical/perception on my first run.
Numenera! Incredibly rich world. At one point, I really wanted to get into the tabletop rpg and have some of the rulebooks, but never got a set of players going. I played a bit of the game, but at the time found the UI so clunky I couldn't continue 😔
I love the way you continue to reach for the elusive elements of language that create the magic inside our brains. I admire writers who have that ability to form sentences that pass the blood brain barrier and go straight into your soul. It’s something I’m forever reaching for but fear it will never be in my grasp because I’m too grounded by the plot and the machinations of the characters.
"...ability to form sentences that pass the blood brain barrier and go straight into your soul." and here you have said it so perfectly, Ben!
I do not think there is any right or wrong here. Your ability to plot and portray true and real characters is mastery! Plus, although I have mostly listened to your work, and so certain turns of phrase may have passed me by because I am too lost enjoying the story and your rich narration, you absolutely have the ability to conjure up the magical in your descriptions and prose.
I love learning of the writers and people who have seeped into veins of writers who I admire, it's like getting to see their family tree (and what a family you have!).
Excellent reflection, Nathan. One I 100% agree with. Reading has been so critical in shaping my idea of "the type of writing I enjoy," and, inevitably (almost unconsciously), my style. The authors you mention, in particular, have played a huge role for me. Especially Murakami, but you already know that. Borges and Nabokov as well, to a certain extent. One of the clearest realizations I've come to recently is that reading well—with concentration, curiosity, appreciation, and passion—certain authors may be the only tangible help in the quest for the writing I want to see coming out of my pen. A quest that's never-ending, as far as I'm concerned.
Thank you, Silvio! So appreciate your thoughts. You know how much I admire your own style, and I love how although your influences (at least, the ones I can feel/know about) blend through your words, your style is your own, and that is a beautiful thing.
A never-ending quest! Absolutely. May we always find joy in that.
Not a mathematician but rather a magician of words! Also, I see your Negroni and raise you a French Connection. As for prose that strikes a chord within us, it is not something you can plot out, it is very much a feeling and grammar seems inconsequential in the majestic glow that such prose can incite. And yes, it will influence us, and we will imitate. Mimesis, it’s life.
Campari is reason enough to visit earth. Even to stay in earth. The authors you mentioned don't have English as mother tongue. A thought about it. When I am lost in prose, I run into poetry, and vice versa. If you run into Borges it doesn't matter: he solved the square root on any sentence, creating his own genre.
You know, you raise a good point, and it makes me wonder about translation (where applicable) in such contexts, and the role of the translator. I gel with some Murakami more than others, and I think part of that may be who is translating.
It is a complex thread. As far as I know, Murakami writes in English and afterwards translates into a 'peculiar' Japanesse, but he employs translators for the English versions. Weird.
Navokov, as Conrad, wrote in English, their second or third language, I guess. Borges was a polyglot, but prefereed writing in Argentinian Spanish.
As a translator myself, I tend to be more 'literal' for other's writers and more adaptative and free for my own works. Preferences and taste over the final result, I presume.
Very interesting, Nathan. Several thoughts, in no particular order:
1. I should like to use your title in an article, with credit of course, and indubitably with your permission.
2. I wonder if different parts of the brain are affected by reading according to how one experiences it. For example, I said to a friend once that Under Milk Wood is such lovely poetry, and he replied by saying it isn't poetry, it's music. It obviously isn't, but if he experienced it as he might experience a favourite piece of music, perhaps it was the musical part of his brain that was stimulated by UMW. Sorry for expressing this so poorly.
3. May I recommend Nabokov's Short stories? Beautiful prose, marvellous metaphors.
4. A very wise girlfriend said to me that we are the embodiment of everyone we have ever met. I think that writers are the embodiment of everyone we have ever read.
Love all of this, Terry, thank you as ever for your thoughts.
1. Of course! With pleasure.
2. This is fascinating. I must confess I do not know UMW. There's probably some research done with brain scans and people listening to music, poetry, stories, and I wouldn't be surprised if slightly different regions get stimulated in different ways by different people. The fact that we have such different tastes and experiences of what we like/dislike is one of life's joys, of course.
3. You may indeed. But first (starting today, actually, as I just finished my current read) I am going to read Pale Fire. I am already mighty tickled by the foreword. What a clever chap.
4. So true. I like this notion, and it is what makes me want to read more and more.
Thanks. I have a great idea if how I'd like to use it!
Agree with all you say.
I've been meaning to read that myself, but had forgotten. I bought it ages ago, and it is now ready to be devoured, or savoured. Perhaps we can compare notes.
For me, certain combinations of words can solve previously hazy equations in my mind with a sudden flash of clarity that feels simultaneously like relief!—and like love for the one who solved the impossible riddle.
I love it, adding alcohol as the catalyst to drift into the use of use one of my favorite techniques to share a story: the unreliable narrator. I just finished Juno’s Diaz’s “The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao” which is riddled with footnotes proclaiming the unreliability (very similar to Danielewski’s “House of Leaves”) and a section titled Notes From The Author that just openly breakdown an illusion the author, narrator, or story can be fully trusted—but back to your piece…I too spend exhaustive efforts seeking out just single sentences as I read that bend my understanding of the story and change the way I want to write (usually leaving me feeling inadequate but oh well..). Im really enjoying these reflective pieces that continue to create an illusion that suggests complete chaos and a lack of structure yet are organized to carry forth a well crafted message. Thanks as always for posting!!!
Nathan, you are articulating something in this piece that I feel so deeply about reading and writing and how it can move me like no other thing. This line especially — “These feelings are those that arise only when within the flow and totality of his novels.” — reminds me of Lauren Groff’s take on sentences as “fractals of the whole.”
An interesting - you have focused completely on works in translation (I assume you are reading them in English!)...and all authors whom you know I love (well Nabokov, I'm not sure if you knew, but yes - and also Negronis! ha). I think it adds even more mystique and truth to this idea of the sense of the sentence, the core of it being somehow there and unbreakable yet undefinable. They are - I assume - translatable in this way. For it is not necessary to have the original words and grammar if they translator truly understands the 'square root' without being able to name it. Of course, the text is different, but this element of the unreachable spaces of the human mind...an excellent translator will find it in the original and bring it to us in whatever way the words need to flow.
Also - I think reading in other languages or equally in (good) translation gives us access to so many ways to use language. Perhaps we could name the constructions if we were to dissect them (probably Terry could!). But I find that my world is richer the more great world literature I read. Perhaps only because we are exposed to different perspectives and cultures, but I do think the use of language is part of it.
Always enjoy your reflections, Nathan, drunken or not!
Wonderful comment, Kate. Thanks for your deep thoughts.
I hadn't consciously thought about the fact these were all works in translation (although did Nabokov write Lolita in English? *Checks* -- yes, he did), but Rafa mentioned this aspect too. You raise excellent points. If the writer truly understands the mathematics, and if the translator is good, then the meaning bleeds through.
I am halfway through Pale Fire now and I'm honestly slightly disappointed. I think it's brilliant in the originality and what it does, but I'm a little lost and not so engaged with the whole Zemblan King plot. I'm much more enthralled by Kinbote's obsession with Shade and the poem itself.
Oh yes of course - re Lolita! I guess authors also working between languages do this. (Murakami? Hadn’t heard he wrote in English first though I know he is fluent. Really enjoy his book of conversation with Seiji Ozawa since music for them is the medium of truth) that became a long parenthetical but I’m on a phone so will just keep going 😊 Kundera! I’d place him in these greats for similar reasons and he’s writing in French though his mother tongue is Czech. Yesi or PK Leung, the HK poet, did most of his own translations to English and then there’s Beckett. All with these kind of magical sentences.
I’m just observing at this point! Not sure where I’m heading! Enjoy your reading and your time off (I believe? It time different?).
Well, I had Friday off work because I have excess annual leave and need to chip away at it. We're between semesters, but work and research and prep continues on.
“bask in the pale fire of his brilliance.” I understood that reference! I borrowed Lolita from my wife (then girlfriend) three or four years ago, and still haven’t read it. But Pale Fire has always seemed more interesting to me. Perhaps it’s time I picked it up.
I’m nearly halfway through Pale Fire now. Lolita eclipses it, in my opinion. The former is very clever and witty, and perhaps my thoughts will change upon completion, but the latter is much more coherent yet still retains Nabokov’s unmistakable brilliance.
In total alignment with you here Nathan. It’s almost as if this “square root sentence” you hunt is capable of penetrating more than mind alone, branching outwards to touch eyes, ears, tongue and fingers too… and of course, soul.:)
I forgot, this reminds me of a scene from Dead Poet Society about measuring the quality of a poem. https://youtu.be/LjHORRHXtyI?si=ziwar4i0gbcoQiAE
Hehehe, so so good. Only Robin Williams could deliver this. Thanks for sharing it!
I miss him😢
I know. So tragic. He was a master.
He is missed but never forgotten. Such talent. 😢
Love that film, esp the poem recital scene
Hey, I just thought of something;
If you can buy dark maple syrup , then purchase a good vanilla ice cream and pour some on! Closest you’re gonna get.
Noted. We have true, authentic maple syrup in the cupboard, so all that is needed is some good vanilla ice cream!
You must report back!🍦
Perfection.
I love your passion for the word. I have that especially when it comes to language-bending poetry. That's something I always seek out in writing but in gaming, too. Your writing is always so sublimely poetic. Keep experimenting with words, see how far they bend. Rules were meant to be bent.
Thank you, Nadia! And yours, too. 🤗
I know you have mentioned several in the past, but are there any specific games that top the list?
Aww. Thank you! You know Grim Fandango. That game is one big poem. Haha! I would say Death Stranding is poetic too. I have to think on others.
Hope you don't mind me jumping in here... Have you played Disco Elysium? Really want to get back to that game.
Pillars of Eternity too, so much of it is poetic writing meets worldbuilding.
Same goes for Citizen Sleeper.
Yep yep yep to all of the above (and of course don't mind you jumping in). Disco E is the, err, pillar of that set. The writing, the internal dialogue, the madness and craziness of that story. I loved every minute of it. I started a second playthrough with a completely different build, so I really should get back to that.
CS has superb writing and vibe. Both PoE games are great, too, especially #1.
I started playing Disco Elysium with the 'sensitive' build but it was so emotional, it made it really hard for me to keep going... Maybe I should just restart with the analytical build!
Ok, I realised what I actually wanted to recommend is Torment - Tides of Numenera. Rich world (originally developed for tabletop RPG), genius writing. I've actually taken notes & saved some quotes from it.
Yes, I went full analytical/perception on my first run.
Numenera! Incredibly rich world. At one point, I really wanted to get into the tabletop rpg and have some of the rulebooks, but never got a set of players going. I played a bit of the game, but at the time found the UI so clunky I couldn't continue 😔
Disco Elysium is aces!
I love the way you continue to reach for the elusive elements of language that create the magic inside our brains. I admire writers who have that ability to form sentences that pass the blood brain barrier and go straight into your soul. It’s something I’m forever reaching for but fear it will never be in my grasp because I’m too grounded by the plot and the machinations of the characters.
"...ability to form sentences that pass the blood brain barrier and go straight into your soul." and here you have said it so perfectly, Ben!
I do not think there is any right or wrong here. Your ability to plot and portray true and real characters is mastery! Plus, although I have mostly listened to your work, and so certain turns of phrase may have passed me by because I am too lost enjoying the story and your rich narration, you absolutely have the ability to conjure up the magical in your descriptions and prose.
I love learning of the writers and people who have seeped into veins of writers who I admire, it's like getting to see their family tree (and what a family you have!).
☺️ An ever-expanding tree, with sprawling roots. Thanks Chloe. Hope you're well.
Excellent reflection, Nathan. One I 100% agree with. Reading has been so critical in shaping my idea of "the type of writing I enjoy," and, inevitably (almost unconsciously), my style. The authors you mention, in particular, have played a huge role for me. Especially Murakami, but you already know that. Borges and Nabokov as well, to a certain extent. One of the clearest realizations I've come to recently is that reading well—with concentration, curiosity, appreciation, and passion—certain authors may be the only tangible help in the quest for the writing I want to see coming out of my pen. A quest that's never-ending, as far as I'm concerned.
Thank you, Silvio! So appreciate your thoughts. You know how much I admire your own style, and I love how although your influences (at least, the ones I can feel/know about) blend through your words, your style is your own, and that is a beautiful thing.
A never-ending quest! Absolutely. May we always find joy in that.
Thank you, Nathan. I can reciprocate every single word. And yes, may we always find joy in this continuous quest!
Not a mathematician but rather a magician of words! Also, I see your Negroni and raise you a French Connection. As for prose that strikes a chord within us, it is not something you can plot out, it is very much a feeling and grammar seems inconsequential in the majestic glow that such prose can incite. And yes, it will influence us, and we will imitate. Mimesis, it’s life.
Never had a French Connection, but having just Googled now I do (although it is 7 a.m.!)
Your words are wise and true, thank you for sharing your thoughts my friend.
We had a bottle of Disaronno a while ago and no one drank it so I downloaded that app called Mixel well and the bottle was gone just like that 😅
Campari is reason enough to visit earth. Even to stay in earth. The authors you mentioned don't have English as mother tongue. A thought about it. When I am lost in prose, I run into poetry, and vice versa. If you run into Borges it doesn't matter: he solved the square root on any sentence, creating his own genre.
Well said, Rafa. Your comment makes me grin.
You know, you raise a good point, and it makes me wonder about translation (where applicable) in such contexts, and the role of the translator. I gel with some Murakami more than others, and I think part of that may be who is translating.
I love your line about Borges!
It is a complex thread. As far as I know, Murakami writes in English and afterwards translates into a 'peculiar' Japanesse, but he employs translators for the English versions. Weird.
Navokov, as Conrad, wrote in English, their second or third language, I guess. Borges was a polyglot, but prefereed writing in Argentinian Spanish.
As a translator myself, I tend to be more 'literal' for other's writers and more adaptative and free for my own works. Preferences and taste over the final result, I presume.
Fascinating, Rafa, I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing. Also, equally fascinating that you yourself are a translator.
Very interesting, Nathan. Several thoughts, in no particular order:
1. I should like to use your title in an article, with credit of course, and indubitably with your permission.
2. I wonder if different parts of the brain are affected by reading according to how one experiences it. For example, I said to a friend once that Under Milk Wood is such lovely poetry, and he replied by saying it isn't poetry, it's music. It obviously isn't, but if he experienced it as he might experience a favourite piece of music, perhaps it was the musical part of his brain that was stimulated by UMW. Sorry for expressing this so poorly.
3. May I recommend Nabokov's Short stories? Beautiful prose, marvellous metaphors.
4. A very wise girlfriend said to me that we are the embodiment of everyone we have ever met. I think that writers are the embodiment of everyone we have ever read.
Love all of this, Terry, thank you as ever for your thoughts.
1. Of course! With pleasure.
2. This is fascinating. I must confess I do not know UMW. There's probably some research done with brain scans and people listening to music, poetry, stories, and I wouldn't be surprised if slightly different regions get stimulated in different ways by different people. The fact that we have such different tastes and experiences of what we like/dislike is one of life's joys, of course.
3. You may indeed. But first (starting today, actually, as I just finished my current read) I am going to read Pale Fire. I am already mighty tickled by the foreword. What a clever chap.
4. So true. I like this notion, and it is what makes me want to read more and more.
Thanks. I have a great idea if how I'd like to use it!
Agree with all you say.
I've been meaning to read that myself, but had forgotten. I bought it ages ago, and it is now ready to be devoured, or savoured. Perhaps we can compare notes.
Oh, I thought it was you who'd originally recommended it to me 😂
Perhaps it was Kate.
Let us savour away!
It might well have been me. I started it ages ago and then suddenly there was so much going I was too distracted to do it justice. 😊
For me, certain combinations of words can solve previously hazy equations in my mind with a sudden flash of clarity that feels simultaneously like relief!—and like love for the one who solved the impossible riddle.
So true, Ann. So true. Thank you for your words. 🤗
I love it, adding alcohol as the catalyst to drift into the use of use one of my favorite techniques to share a story: the unreliable narrator. I just finished Juno’s Diaz’s “The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao” which is riddled with footnotes proclaiming the unreliability (very similar to Danielewski’s “House of Leaves”) and a section titled Notes From The Author that just openly breakdown an illusion the author, narrator, or story can be fully trusted—but back to your piece…I too spend exhaustive efforts seeking out just single sentences as I read that bend my understanding of the story and change the way I want to write (usually leaving me feeling inadequate but oh well..). Im really enjoying these reflective pieces that continue to create an illusion that suggests complete chaos and a lack of structure yet are organized to carry forth a well crafted message. Thanks as always for posting!!!
Thanks so much for reading and for your thoughts, Brian. That means a lot.
Big House of Leaves fan here, but I hadn't heard of Juno Diaz's book. I shall have to check that out. Sounds perfect for me.
That’s a great book 👌🏽
Nathan, you are articulating something in this piece that I feel so deeply about reading and writing and how it can move me like no other thing. This line especially — “These feelings are those that arise only when within the flow and totality of his novels.” — reminds me of Lauren Groff’s take on sentences as “fractals of the whole.”
Ooo, wow, what an awesome time. Fractals of the whole. I really like that.
Thanks so much, Stephanie. I'm glad this resonated with you too.
An interesting - you have focused completely on works in translation (I assume you are reading them in English!)...and all authors whom you know I love (well Nabokov, I'm not sure if you knew, but yes - and also Negronis! ha). I think it adds even more mystique and truth to this idea of the sense of the sentence, the core of it being somehow there and unbreakable yet undefinable. They are - I assume - translatable in this way. For it is not necessary to have the original words and grammar if they translator truly understands the 'square root' without being able to name it. Of course, the text is different, but this element of the unreachable spaces of the human mind...an excellent translator will find it in the original and bring it to us in whatever way the words need to flow.
Also - I think reading in other languages or equally in (good) translation gives us access to so many ways to use language. Perhaps we could name the constructions if we were to dissect them (probably Terry could!). But I find that my world is richer the more great world literature I read. Perhaps only because we are exposed to different perspectives and cultures, but I do think the use of language is part of it.
Always enjoy your reflections, Nathan, drunken or not!
Wonderful comment, Kate. Thanks for your deep thoughts.
I hadn't consciously thought about the fact these were all works in translation (although did Nabokov write Lolita in English? *Checks* -- yes, he did), but Rafa mentioned this aspect too. You raise excellent points. If the writer truly understands the mathematics, and if the translator is good, then the meaning bleeds through.
I am halfway through Pale Fire now and I'm honestly slightly disappointed. I think it's brilliant in the originality and what it does, but I'm a little lost and not so engaged with the whole Zemblan King plot. I'm much more enthralled by Kinbote's obsession with Shade and the poem itself.
Oh yes of course - re Lolita! I guess authors also working between languages do this. (Murakami? Hadn’t heard he wrote in English first though I know he is fluent. Really enjoy his book of conversation with Seiji Ozawa since music for them is the medium of truth) that became a long parenthetical but I’m on a phone so will just keep going 😊 Kundera! I’d place him in these greats for similar reasons and he’s writing in French though his mother tongue is Czech. Yesi or PK Leung, the HK poet, did most of his own translations to English and then there’s Beckett. All with these kind of magical sentences.
I’m just observing at this point! Not sure where I’m heading! Enjoy your reading and your time off (I believe? It time different?).
Thanks Kate. Good additions for me to seek out.
Well, I had Friday off work because I have excess annual leave and need to chip away at it. We're between semesters, but work and research and prep continues on.
Hope you're having a great holiday yourself!
“bask in the pale fire of his brilliance.” I understood that reference! I borrowed Lolita from my wife (then girlfriend) three or four years ago, and still haven’t read it. But Pale Fire has always seemed more interesting to me. Perhaps it’s time I picked it up.
I’m nearly halfway through Pale Fire now. Lolita eclipses it, in my opinion. The former is very clever and witty, and perhaps my thoughts will change upon completion, but the latter is much more coherent yet still retains Nabokov’s unmistakable brilliance.
In total alignment with you here Nathan. It’s almost as if this “square root sentence” you hunt is capable of penetrating more than mind alone, branching outwards to touch eyes, ears, tongue and fingers too… and of course, soul.:)
Perfectly put, Kimberly!
There’s poetry in language. And finding ones poetic language is a beautiful journey.
Did you read ‘Atonement’ by Ian McEwan?
☺️
No, I haven't. Have seen the film (amazing), but not read the book. Have you? Assume it's good.
The writing is exquisite. You’ll love it!
I can't wait to see what you choose and what you say for your "book report." ;)
Hehe, thanks Troy. There'll be a book report sort of post from things I've read this year at some point in the coming months. :)
haha well I meant for your guest post, but yes, more please ;)
Oh, haha, facepalm.
Now I remember 🤣🤣