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Terry Freedman's avatar

Good to see you back here, Nathan. Your first paragraph spoke ro me, as I've been going through some stuff myself. I've been thinking about writing about it, but not sure.

Regarding "sensibilities that all developers—all writers, for that matter; even those who rely excessively upon em-dashes—should strive to achieve.": I wish you had expound on that, because I would love to know why. I have my own reasons for agreeing with you, but you first!

Onward and upwards, dear friend.

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Thanks, Terry. It's good to be back. I just need to make it regular and get to reading all the wonderful work put out by others, including yourself.

Go for it re: writing about it, if it helps. I feel it has done for me, brief as my description may be.

RE: that point I made. I think environmental storytelling in its strictest sense is more confined to visual mediums, predominantly games but also film and TV; less so in books, though it is by no means absent there*. I'm just a fan of non-overt exposition, and this method does wonders for that. It leaves me feeling more intrigued. Tales that are embedded in the world feel organic.

*one that comes to mind is The Book of the New Sun, where the world's history is gleaned from descriptions observed by the protagonist, but where he doesn't truly understand the context because he only has a limited view and world history.

Tell me your thoughts.

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Terry Freedman's avatar

Thanks for your considered response, Nathan. When it comes to writing about myself in terms of stuff troubling me, I can almost never bring myself to do it. It is partly a privacy thing, but more a case of thinking that everyone has their own troubles, why would they be interested in mine? I do divulge stuff, though, if I think (a) it might be helpful to someone and (b) to explain a prolonged absence.

I am not familiar with the ‘sun’ book. However, I am very interested in stories that look at the same situation from different points of view, which ties in with your point about not seeing the whole picture. That’s why I like this Guardian advert from around 40 years ago: https://youtu.be/_SsccRkLLzU?si=YAr_vTVKF-bxO2V9

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Very good advert (and haven't times changed in how adverts are presented and styled!).

I understand the sense of constraint that happens when it comes to writing about oneself, especially as a fellow Englishman.

However, I will say, write *for* yourself, even when that might be writing about things that are troubling you. Nothing has to necessarily be helpful to your audience. The best reads are when you just get sucked into the feelings and expression that the word-artist is conveying. That's my take, anyway.

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Susie Mawhinney's avatar

I don't think this is the first time you have fluttered through my thoughts only for me to find a post the very next day — I was reading a passage from Norwegian Wood to a student with made me think, I wonder what Nathan is up to? — anyway, it's great to see you back and I hear you, I too have had a severe lack in terms of time and inspiration to write regularly over the summer months — hopefully winter will remedy that...

I am not a gamer, as you can probably guess but believe it or not I have heard of this much waited for Silksong, even heard the title song... both my son and daughter have raved to the extent of my being unable to ignore their excitement! And here you are endorsing it! Strikes me, as games go, it must be phenomenal !

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Hey Susie, lovely to hear from you (I'm sorry I've been so absent -- looking forward to reading your latest).

I thought perhaps you'd have heard of this via your son. His name (if I recall correctly) actually features in the game.

I hope you're well and summer has treated you well. I'm eager for more sunshine to reach us down here as the seasons shift.

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Stephanie Loomis's avatar

Keep fighting for the surface where you can breathe.

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Thanks Stephanie!

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Kathleen Clare Waller's avatar

I’ve missed you, Nathan! But take your time. :)

The way you talk about games is so fascinating (I recall some cool conversations between you and Nadjia). These images look like dreamworlds and I can see how you could find a place for your soul to perch right there.

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Thanks Kate, and lovely to hear from you. I look forward to catching up on your own work. Hope all is going great in Japan!

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Vanessa Glau's avatar

Lovely to hear from you, Nathan! As always, hope you can claw your way out of the well soon.

Games! I'm terrible at that type of game but Hollow Knight made me wish I was good so I could appreciate the rich atmospheric setting more & explore all the locations. (Fun fact, I interviewed Team Cherry for my master's thesis on localization in indie game dev...) Perhaps a game that elicits a similar feeling of awe/loss for me is Nier Automata. Can't wait to dive back into that one with more playthroughs.

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Thanks Vanessa. Likewise.

Admittedly, I wasn't very good either, but it taught me a lot about more precision platforming and it was all so worth it.

Oh wow re: TC interview! That's amazing. Did you ever post about it? Did you hear that whoever did their Simplified Chinese translation for Silksong was a disaster and is being rapidly revamped?

Nier is still on my to-play list!

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Vanessa Glau's avatar

I didn't! I graduated long before I joined Substack but I've always toyed with the idea of repackaging parts of that thesis for the newsletter... I was really anxious about the interviews (I did 6 in total) but it was lots of fun overall!

Of course, Silksong wasn't out back then & I haven't heard about it! That's a shame, also because good translation doesn't come cheap. Sucks that they had to redo it but also, great that they're taking it seriously & (hopefully) doing the right thing.

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Mark Hannam's avatar

Welcome back! I read Tomorrow… last year, and I’m looking forward to hear your thoughts on it. Given what you’ve just written, I think you’ll like it!

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Thanks, Mark! Hope you're well. I'm already very much sucked into Tomorrow, so thinking it'll be a short read. Seems very good so far.

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Ann Collins's avatar

Nathan, so good to see you writing here today. You haven’t missed anything, you know. The trains are always leaving this station and you are never late. Go ahead and jump on whenever you’re ready (or even halfway ready!)

Thanks for the book recommendations. The Mariana Enriquez collection sounds perfect for me right now (Adela’s House especially) I always crave something a little macabre during October. And just a coincidence, but “Things We Lost in the Fire” is also the name of an old Bastille song that’s a favorite of mine, so I’ll take that as a good omen :-)

I had recently run across an idea by Corita Kent who cautioned artists not to “enshrine a work” because each finished work is only a prelude to the next. And wow, that resonates for me because I have a tendency to want to stay in an imaginary world—especially one that is meaningful and satisfying. But that experience is destined to be such good fuel for the next project. Knowing this keeps the creative energy alive and moving forward.

Still, rest and savoring are so important. There needs to be time for incorporating new ideas and finding the new truths they offer. As hard as it is to leave these Wells, I’m sure this writing sabbatical has nourished your synapses in ways that will surprise and delight you very soon!

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Hi Anne! Miss you. 🤗

As ever, there's some lovely little connection in what we write. Didn't know that about the old Bastille song. A good omen indeed. I hope you like the collection. I'd say Mariana's prose is a little to on the simplistic side for me -- that sounds like an insult but it's not, it's just that I love more poetic prose.

Excellent advice and words from Corita. I can see that, and I'd say that Team Cherry certainly lent heavily into that notion by taking aspects from HK into Silksong, and one of the optional endings is a short cutscene that leads directly to a "To be continued..." offering up opportunities for further exploration. Excited to see what they'll plan on doing.

I hope you're doing great and looking forward to catching the train over to your station. :)

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Ann Collins's avatar

“To be continued” is such a joyful phrase. Sounds like this labor of love will be at least a trilogy.

Please do come by! I’ve been experimenting with making small nature fables—more like bedtime stories, I guess. Something I hope might be soft and comforting in these times when sleep is hard to come by. One has been published and there’s another one in the works. Thomas Rist has kindly provided poetry to pair alongside.

On Notes, I’ve been writing some micro-poems for the microseasons. Just working on do-able little projects like this (in the midst of also trying to juggle my professional work) keeps me happy and inching forward.

I can’t wait to read your next story—whenever it comes!!

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Caz Hart's avatar

I persisted with 2666, although skipping large chunks about violence against women.

It was an achievement. It was long . Didn't love it.

Reading Infinite Jest again, because no one writes like DFW. He was a writer in all upper case, and devilishly entertaining. A dextrous mind, a unique talent.

I have to confess that it was a DNF for me with Solenoid. Started off with promise, before rapid decent into tedium. I kept waiting for it to become lively or challenging, but it didn't happen. Maybe it's better in the original language.

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Hey Caz, great to hear from you. I can see why 2666 and Solenoid are divisive, and that's part of the enjoyment knowing it's not universally loved.

I really, really, must get to some DFW. Not sure if I said, but I did pick up a copy of Infinite Jest in Dymocks and had a quick leaf through and enjoyed what I read. I'll get there... soon!

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Caz Hart's avatar

For me, I found nothing to love in either of them. I don't begrudge any writer for gaining recognition or praise or money, not ever.

From any exceptionally long book - nay, even a novella or short story - if widely lauded, I expect to be mentally engaged and captivated by creative energy, or something memorable and fresh.

Neither book achieved that for me. I was, um, bored.

DFW, Rushdie, and many others are so insanely lively and original that boredom is impossible. I could read them forever.

Different tastes. Different talents.

I suppose it comes down to what we individuals want or expect from any particular book.

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Yeah, different tastes for sure. I don't think it's down to expectation. Certainly not for me. I'd read zero Mircea and zero Roberto when I turned to these books.

For both for me, the liveliness was in the language, sentence construction, and imagination. Utterly entrancing for me. But there are writers who are lauded who I've found totally dull.

(I'm certain that won't be the case for DFW for me. 😜)

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Daniel O’Donnell's avatar

Nice to have you back Nathan. I’ve missed you, my friend 🙂

I wish I could get back to playing computer games as there’s so many good ones about and Hollow Knight looks great. Hoping to get the new version of the C64 for Christmas so that might get me back into some old school text adventure gaming. We’ll see 🤔

Catch up with your reading as you go. All the stories will still be waiting for you when you get there 📕 👍🏼

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Thanks, Dan. Good to be back and to chat to you!

Haha, you know, text adventures are still thriving!

Hope you're doing great.

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Caz Hart's avatar

Tomorrow, Tomorrow, Tomorrow is a solid contemporary novel.

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Nathan Slake's avatar

I'm getting that feeling already!

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Caz Hart's avatar

Who are these em-dash reliants? I want names! 😂

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C J O'Hare's avatar

Such an amazing game Hollowknight. I also find Christopher Larkin's score absolutely stunning and write to it often. I am still stuck in Act 1 of Silksong at the moment and am having to summon superhuman strength to avoid listening to tracks from locations i haven't encountered yet. My last poem actually was inspired by Bellhart. I published it at as lowkey dog-whistle to fellow fans but as of yet, no hits! So happy to see another writer similarly enraptured by these games. On the sadness of completing these games (still in progress for me, thankfully), I can relate. Although, last year I introduced my 5 year old son to the franchise and was able to experience it all over again through his eyes. What has resulted was Hollowknight birthday cakes, OSTs being played on loop, multitudes of map-making (literally every wall), and a fellow compadre in exploring Pharloom. He's 6 now and making some of those eye-wateringly difficult platforming sections look easy! I fear the future nostalgia i am building with this experience - its going to be tough in 20 years!

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Thanks CJ, lovely to meet a fellow Hollow Knight obsessive. That's so great about getting to play with your son. How magical. The mapping aspect and the sense of a world unfolding before your eyes is one of the big appeals for me. No spoilers, but Pharloom is vaster than Hallownest!

I actually listened to parts of the soundtrack ahead of encountering places (but I'd say only about halfway through the whole thing), but I did it without looking at track names, as those certainly have spoilers in the titles.

Good luck with the rest of Act 1, but also savour the experience. There's zero hurry, and another part of the joy is the sense of improvement and overcoming challenges.

I'll go check out that poem. :)

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C J O'Hare's avatar

Cheers Nathan. I've always been into Metroidvania's (more Metroid than Castlevania mind) - though I have encountered nothing as good as Hollowknight - its in a league of its own. Environmental story telling is a great pull for me. There's a lot to be learned there, building atmosphere, lore and worldbuilding (depending on your own levels of interest and attention). Hoping it bleeds into my writing. Adam Neville has a great horror book that i plan to read next 'Wyrd and other Derelictions' - a collection of short stories where environmental story telling is prominent. I recall also (correct me if I'm wrong) speaking to you about Gene Wolfe and Book of the New Sun, (a long time ago)? Which i bailed on after book one but plan to get back into also. Oh, and have you ever played Dark Souls or Bloodborne? I'm guessing yes!

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Agree that it's in a league of its own.

Thanks for the nod to Adam Neville. I hadn't heard of him. And yes, that's right, Book of the New Sun! It was indeed quite a while ago.

Funnily enough, I've not properly played Bloodborne or any of the specific Dark Souls games. However, I played and loved Elden Ring. Not made it to the DLC yet, though. That's certain a game riddled with cryptic lore, so I assume the rest of From Soft's catalogue is similar?

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C J O'Hare's avatar

I gave up on Elden ring as I was initially very overwhelmed by its sprawling open world. DS and BB are much more suffocating and intense and the first time i encountered a game where the story of the game itself was essentially buried (a game within a game itself). Greymoor by the way, takes a great deal of influence from Bloodborne - i'd be very surprised if content wasn't starting to appear comparing the two. If you like environmental story telling, lore discovery and spending almost as much time watching lore theories on YT than playing, then you'll love all the From Software games, and as you're a Hollowknight fan you'll be less frustrated by the difficulty, and the lack of hand-holding.

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Bertus's avatar

Put your name in the search engine today cause I noticed the silence. Trying not to get buried here too. I hear you.

Loved this piece. My desire to write comes mainly from the same place. Of finding a world of wonder, of opening the neglected door and entering just to see. My lone wolf trail forced me to invent worlds myself with very limited means. Back then I didn't have the machine, hardly any cultural input to spark good form. Searches at the library were frustratingly disappointing for my visual hunger. I feel I was never initiated into literature. The museums I got to see were downers. Not sure what I want to say here, except that maybe now we are at the other end. From that barren landscape of my childhood to the contant thundering 'culture' raining down. Still wondering, what the hell is my role. Still trying to find words for the world as I experience it.

Love, Bertus

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Nathan Slake's avatar

Thanks Bertus, and apologies for my slow reply. I seem to be very much absent still, unfortunately. I need to change something internally to properly return to this space, which I miss.

Lovely to hear your experience and that there is a rain of creativity for you, beautiful.

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Ben Wakeman's avatar

Sorry it took me so damned long to get around to reading this piece, Nathan. My youngest child is passionate about games for all the reasons you describe so eloquently in this piece. She's always digging for these obscure, artsy games with deep philosophical and political undertones. I believe they are an art form and I can see how they could be super addicting to create -- the ability to weave together story, visuals, music, and sound design. Here's hoping you'll find your way back to stories when you're ready.

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Nathan Slake's avatar

As I just said in my reply to your own post, there's nothing to apologise for, Ben. I feel that a lot of us who started around the same time have been going through phases and struggles here and I myself find it hard at the moment to even get to my activity feed to look over replies etc. I can't really explain it.

Anyway, I hope all is OK with you.

Art form indeed. You'd be perfectly suited to penning some music (and stories!) to games. ;)

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Caitriana NicNeacail's avatar

I wish my reflexes were fast enough to make any kind of progress in Hollow Knight, but after failing to make it past the False Knight I decided it was beyond me. I have enjoyed the artwork and music and vibes in watching my ten-year-old nephews play though!

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Nathan Slake's avatar

At least you get to witness it. ;)

I do think it's a great process of building those reactions if you want to pursue it. I totally sucked at first and feared all bosses, but now relish those learning experiences!

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Alexander Ipfelkofer's avatar

"Murakamian well" Hah! No rope is long enough for that one, but luckily, you can pass through the walls... ;) Good to see a post and on books and games nonetheless. (Video) Games are indeed a waste of time according to many, but then again any and everything is wasting time, as in using up time, time that is gone forever, but the memories stay, until they too cease at the end of it. Silk Song looks fantastic. I have resisted thus far, knowing full well that if I give in, more time will be "wasted" and the rope will need to be even longer!

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Nathan Slake's avatar

I can confirm that it is, indeed, fantastic. :)

Enjoyable time is not wasted time.

Hope you're well and a new post is coming soon.

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Alexander Ipfelkofer's avatar

Exactly, the joy may also be in the wastefulness, sometimes. Time is still the most precious finite commodity. And a new post will be coming soon!

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